[atljbo]

[hakim24]

Good video.

Owens has potential, but he is undersized just like Grimes. That is a major hurdle when you play the scheme that we are playing now.

We saw how Grimes had almost no chance against Colston and Miles Austin. I just do not see Owens as very much of an upgrade.

Those two would make Perfect Nickel backs and good depth behind starters. We need a little more size on the outside if we want to be able to handle the best WRs.

[Jaymadd]

hakim24, on 06 November 2009 - 07:16 PM, said:

Good video.

Owens has potential, but he is undersized just like Grimes. That is a major hurdle when you play the scheme that we are playing now.

We saw how Grimes had almost no chance against Colston and Miles Austin. I just do not see Owens as very much of an upgrade.

Those two would make Perfect Nickel backs and good depth behind starters. We need a little more size on the outside if we want to be able to handle the best WRs.

Hakim you really need to get off this whole size thing, when most CB in the NFL average height is 5'10 dude. Antione Winfield comes to mind when i watch Chris Owens, Winfield is on 5'9, but goes against #1 all the time but is physical enough and plays with great technique to compete with taller WR to take away the height advantage. The problem with Grimes is the fact that he is not a physical CB and plays more like a finesse CB.

[atljbo]

hakim24, on 07 November 2009 - 01:16 AM, said:

Good video.

Owens has potential, but he is undersized just like Grimes. That is a major hurdle when you play the scheme that we are playing now.

We saw how Grimes had almost no chance against Colston and Miles Austin. I just do not see Owens as very much of an upgrade.

Those two would make Perfect Nickel backs and good depth behind starters. We need a little more size on the outside if we want to be able to handle the best WRs.

I disagree because of 5'1o D-Hall, 5'10 Dunta Robinson (who every on this board wants), 5'10 Lito Sheppard, and 5'10 Sheldon Brown (measured in at 5'9 at the combine).... All of those CB's are good...... I could name even more.... Its about the CB's style or play and their technique... Just because Grimes and Chris Houston get beat dont mean Owens is the same way because he is around that 5'9-5-10 range.... Chris Owens is more aggressive then both.... All we can do is wait and see what he can do.



Exactly Jaymadd..... The funny thing is that Antione Winfield is really 5'8 and some change... We all would like that 60 - 6'1 specimen at CB but just because a guy is around 5'10 does not mean that he cant be a really good CB.

[hakim24]

Jaymadd is GreatnessŸ, on 06 November 2009 - 11:30 PM, said:

Hakim you really need to get off this whole size thing, when most CB in the NFL average height is 5'10 dude. Antione Winfield comes to mind when i watch Chris Owens, Winfield is on 5'9, but goes against #1 all the time but is physical enough and plays with great technique to compete with taller WR to take away the height advantage. The problem with Grimes is the fact that he is not a physical CB and plays more like a finesse CB.

I never said that Owens cannot be successful. The only thing I said was that most undersized guys usually have trouble against big physical WRs.

[hakim24]

atljbo, on 06 November 2009 - 11:43 PM, said:

I disagree because of 5'1o D-Hall, 5'10 Dunta Robinson (who every on this board wants), 5'10 Lito Sheppard, and 5'10 Sheldon Brown (measured in at 5'9 at the combine).... All of those CB's are good...... I could name even more.... Its about the CB's style or play and their technique... Just because Grimes and Chris Houston get beat dont mean Owens is the same way because he is around that 5'9-5-10 range.... Chris Owens is more aggressive then both.... All we can do is wait and see what he can do.



Exactly Jaymadd..... The funny thing is that Antione Winfield is really 5'8 and some change... We all would like that 60 - 6'1 specimen at CB but just because a guy is around 5'10 does not mean that he cant be a really good CB.

Like I said, it is no question that he has potential. The problem is that most smaller CBs have trouble against those bigger WRs.......even some of those you named.

I think we need a CB who can match up better with bigger WRs. A 5'9 guy against a 6'3 or 6'4 WR is a mismatch all the way.... no matter who it is.

Almost every team has those bigger WRs nowadays. I don't want a 5'9 180 lb Chris Owens matched up with a 6'4 220 lb Marques Colston all game.

I don't want teams to just have to throw the ball up high and let the WR just out jumped those little CBs.

[Jaymadd]

hakim24, on 06 November 2009 - 11:52 PM, said:

I never said that Owens cannot be successful. The only thing I said was that most undersized guys usually have trouble against big physical WRs.

Hakim you are looking at Grimes as the model for undersized CB when that is not the case, if you are physical then you can get away with being 5'9, but if you arent physical then bigger WR's can take advantage of you. Smaller DB really have to perfect their technique in order to take away the height advantage.

[Jaymadd]

hakim24, on 06 November 2009 - 11:59 PM, said:

Like I said, it is no question that he has potential. The problem is that most smaller CBs have trouble against those bigger WRs.......even some of those you named.

I think we need a CB who can match up better with bigger WRs. A 5'9 guy against a 6'3 or 6'4 WR is a mismatch all the way.... no matter who it is.

Almost every team has those bigger WRs nowadays. I don't want a 5'9 180 lb Chris Owens matched up with a 6'4 220 lb Marques Colston all game.

I don't want teams to just have to throw the ball up high and let the WR just out jumped those little CBs.

I really doubt that any WR can out jump Grimes, especially if he is in the right position, but if a WR gets position on a WR it doesnt matter how tall you are, heck even Sean Smith is getting beat by those same bigger WR because he is learning how to get position.

[Jaymadd]

hakim24, on 06 November 2009 - 11:59 PM, said:

Like I said, it is no question that he has potential. The problem is that most smaller CBs have trouble against those bigger WRs.......even some of those you named.

I think we need a CB who can match up better with bigger WRs. A 5'9 guy against a 6'3 or 6'4 WR is a mismatch all the way.... no matter who it is.

Almost every team has those bigger WRs nowadays. I don't want a 5'9 180 lb Chris Owens matched up with a 6'4 220 lb Marques Colston all game.

I don't want teams to just have to throw the ball up high and let the WR just out jumped those little CBs.

Hakim i dont know if you have ever played Basketball, but i kind of relate the situation to basketball. If you box out and get position then you can take away the height advantage because you have proper position, meaning that the taller person is going to have to work even harder to get around your body to get the ball/rebound.

[hakim24]

Jaymadd is GreatnessŸ, on 07 November 2009 - 01:53 AM, said:

Hakim i dont know if you have ever played Basketball, but i kind of relate the situation to basketball. If you box out and get position then you can take away the height advantage because you have proper position, meaning that the taller person is going to have to work even harder to get around your body to get the ball/rebound.

Lol.... I'll kill you in basketball.

But seriously, it is a little different with football. QBs will purposely throw the ball high to where shorter CBs have very little chance.

In basketball, you aren't moving full-speed either.

Teams don't put PGs on Cs in the game and expect him to get a bunch of rebounds. It is kind of the same concept imo. It is an automatic mismatch in both Football and Basketball.

You will win some of those matchups in both sports, but you definitely don't want to be in that situation consistently.

[The Don]

Quote

5'9 180 lb Chris Owens

He measured in at 5 ft. 3 quarters at the combine....I would say he is more 5'10" than 5'9"

[atljbo]

The Don, on 07 November 2009 - 09:36 PM, said:

He measured in at 5 ft. 3 quarters at the combine....I would say he is more 5'10" than 5'9"

exactly..... That's why you might as well say the man is 5'10

[Jaymadd]

hakim24, on 07 November 2009 - 02:20 AM, said:

Lol.... I'll kill you in basketball.

But seriously, it is a little different with football. QBs will purposely throw the ball high to where shorter CBs have very little chance.

In basketball, you aren't moving full-speed either.

Teams don't put PGs on Cs in the game and expect him to get a bunch of rebounds. It is kind of the same concept imo. It is an automatic mismatch in both Football and Basketball.

You will win some of those matchups in both sports, but you definitely don't want to be in that situation consistently.

Man you cant hang, I will step on you lil dude in basketball LOL, you wont be any comp. I just think that as long as the CB can get position then the height wont matter every time the QB throws the ball.

[hakim24]

Jaymadd is GreatnessŸ, on 07 November 2009 - 07:46 PM, said:

Man you cant hang, I will step on you lil dude in basketball LOL, you wont be any comp. I just think that as long as the CB can get position then the height wont matter every time the QB throws the ball.

You won't be going up against no Grimes. lol. I'm 6'2. That is part of the reason why I say it is easy to go up and get it over smaller guys. I do it all the time. lol.

Getting good position does help, but it is much more difficult than you think. Defenders can't hit the WRs and most of those guys are much bigger in size than the CBs.

Good WRs use their bodies to shield those small CBs and there is absolutely nothing that they can really do about it.

Grimes is the perfect example imo. He gets in good position sometimes, but he also gets beat quite often mainly because he is so small.

[Jaymadd]

hakim24, on 07 November 2009 - 09:51 PM, said:

You won't be going up against no Grimes. lol. I'm 6'2. That is part of the reason why I say it is easy to go up and get it over smaller guys. I do it all the time. lol.

Getting good position does help, but it is much more difficult than you think. Defenders can't hit the WRs and most of those guys are much bigger in size than the CBs.

Good WRs use their bodies to shield those small CBs and there is absolutely nothing that they can really do about it.

Grimes is the perfect example imo. He gets in good position sometimes, but he also gets beat quite often mainly because he is so small.

I am 5'11 but i still will beat you down and put my GREATNESS on display on the Basketball court LOL. The problem with Grimes is the fact that he doesnt have much strength up top, to keep position if/when he does get position. That is a problem too, you have to be strong enough to maintain position when you do get it and Grimes is not a physical CB like Owens is.

YOu might be 6'2 but I am probably stronger than you at 5'11 therefor enabling me to get position and keep position regardless. YOu might be able to beat me occasionally even if i have position but for the most part I will still have the advantage, that is the same as a CB/WR battle.

[hakim24]

Jaymadd is GreatnessŸ, on 07 November 2009 - 09:58 PM, said:

I am 5'11 but i still will beat you down and put my GREATNESS on display on the Basketball court LOL. The problem with Grimes is the fact that he doesnt have much strength up top, to keep position if/when he does get position. That is a problem too, you have to be strong enough to maintain position when you do get it and Grimes is not a physical CB like Owens is.

YOu might be 6'2 but I am probably stronger than you at 5'11 therefor enabling me to get position and keep position regardless. YOu might be able to beat me occasionally even if i have position but for the most part I will still have the advantage, that is the same as a CB/WR battle.

The problem with Grimes is that he is just too small.... not really strength. The only time that a CB can really be physical is within 5 yards.

After that.... it is illegal contact or pass interference.

You can't box out the WR while you are running down field. They'll get penalized all day. Grimes is the perfect of example because you RARELY see him completely out of position on any throw his way.


Owens may have been a physical presence in college, but the NFL is a whole different ball game. Players are MUCH bigger, MUCH stronger, and MUCH faster. Honestly, I cannot expect a 5'10 180 lb guy to physically outmatch those bigger WRs.


One problem is that WRs are allowed to be a little more physical than CBs are. That presents an even bigger problem when you are undersized.

One good trait to have as a CB is very long arms that can help deflect passes when you can't get that perfect position.

[NFL Draft Fan 07]

Jaymadd, for the love of God cut it with the greatness crap. That act has gotten so old there aren't words to describe it.

[mattm12]

good clip jbo, it was nice seeing them work him hard in TC, i think he needs a year shadowing in our system, expect him to break out next year. I was hoping and predicting just that for this year, but it is obviously taking a bit of time. Great upside, and proven shutdown at college level

[Jaymadd]

hakim24, on 08 November 2009 - 01:15 AM, said:

The problem with Grimes is that he is just too small.... not really strength. The only time that a CB can really be physical is within 5 yards.

After that.... it is illegal contact or pass interference.

You can't box out the WR while you are running down field. They'll get penalized all day. Grimes is the perfect of example because you RARELY see him completely out of position on any throw his way.


Owens may have been a physical presence in college, but the NFL is a whole different ball game. Players are MUCH bigger, MUCH stronger, and MUCH faster. Honestly, I cannot expect a 5'10 180 lb guy to physically outmatch those bigger WRs.


One problem is that WRs are allowed to be a little more physical than CBs are. That presents an even bigger problem when you are undersized.


One good trait to have as a CB is very long arms that can help deflect passes when you can't get that perfect position.

I agree that it helps if a CB does have long arms.

[Jaymadd]

NFL Draft Fan 07, on 08 November 2009 - 05:10 PM, said:

Jaymadd, for the love of God cut it with the greatness crap. That act has gotten so old there aren't words to describe it.

Dude it is a joke. Get your panties out of a wad man. YOu trippin dog. Let me remove it Just because you told me too. If it bothers you that much may i suggest you build a bridge and get over it.